Submission Deadlines

Discussion (9)

  1. anon

    This is why I try to not tell the engineers the real deadline date & always tell them a few days ahead of time. So when they ask for more time I look like the hero when I give it to them.

  2. Etc.

    Not only they come in at the very last second, but they added a few sheets, deleted some, and changed the title of others. So you will spend a good time updating the sheet index.

  3. Hunter

    Yeah, there’s nothing that gets an Architect’s the blood pressure up like an engineer and a deadline.

  4. Chp

    …Or, there’s nothing like an architect who doesn’t give the engineer the final plans until just before the plans are due because “None of the changes affect your stuff…”

    No! Moving doors, windows and walls don’t affect mechanical, electrical or structural, do they? Of course not! Just because you made the mechanical room smaller and moved the door to the other end of the room, that doesn’t change anything… Oh, and the ceiling height was raised 12″ and the precast supplier had to add an inverted tee beam where it was a clear span before. No, that doesn’t affect anything!

    I’ve seen all of those things happen without any notification from the architect prior to the “final” plans being issued. Some things don’t even show up on the information that is sent to the engineer because “…they just need the updated floor plans…” We don’t need to know any information in the sections? Really?

    Working in Revit certainly solves some of those issues. We do all of our own in-house projects in Revit for all disciplines including architecture but when we work with outside architects, we don’t seem to get firms that are using Revit. I’m currently working on a project with an outside architect where I have actually taken the time to modeled the building in Revit just so I can see what’s actually going on. The architect is working in AutoCAD so all I get is 2D CAD drawings. Getting the 3D information is like pulling teeth because they haven’t even thought about many of the 3D aspects until they get around to doing the details which, of course, are among the very last things to get done. Those 3D issues, in turn, are frequently why those last minute changes “…that don’t affect you…” end up happening.

    Did I mention that Reivt really rocks?

  5. Archie

    You know those clients that wait until you’re completely done with the plans to tell you they want a major change? That’s what we do to engineers on every single job. No wonder they wait ’til the last second to do the plans.

  6. joearch

    I’ve lost count of the number of times the engineer has sent me their drawings at the last moment as they’re headed out the door, with the wrong title block.

  7. engr

    Funny, I went to school for architecture and work for a civil engineering firm and this is exactly how we feel about drawings from the hvac guys and architects. Just saying, the grass really is never greener.

  8. gonk

    I would offer a few thoughts.

    1. Buildings have grown increasingly complex, particularly the building systems, over the last few decades. During that same time,design schedules have consistently been compressed as tightly as possible – often to the detriment of the design because of an external factor (financing, desired opening date, etc.) that came with no consideration toward the time needed to complete the design process. This impacts all of us in the design industry.

    2. In an ideal world, the engineers would have time after the architecture quit changing in order to finish. Knowing that we don’t have that option, some engineers wait until the last minute to start because they don’t have to worry about designing their work multiple times. The engineers that choose to start early in hopes of giving the owner and architect the best product are doing so at some risk to themselves – changing room layouts, moving doors, even altering window material (a simple paragraph in the spec) can have major ramifications to their work, forcing them to start over or figure out what pieces of the design can be kept. Is it your fault that the floor plan has to change? Sometimes yes, sometimes no – and even when the answer is yes, if it is a change that makes the building better, it is a change that the design team needs to live with. Either way, though, it is a change that has a trickle down effect, and the engineers are downstream of that trickle.

    I understand why it is tempting to gripe, and in some cases the engineers have earned that grumbling, but the root of the problem is more than just “lazy engineers” – it is the competing pressures on all design professionals to work faster, more sustainably, and within the bounds of more and more complex rules (many of which act against one another).